Join a Discussion on U.S. Engagement With Muslim Communities Worldwide

Posted by DipNote Bloggers
July 2, 2010
Conversations With America Join a Discussion on U.S. Engagement With Muslim Communities Worldwide

Update: Watch the live broadcast here.

On Friday, July 9, 2010, Steven Clemons, Director of the New America Foundation's American Strategy Program will hold a conversation with Farah Pandith, Special Representative to Muslim Communities, on the United States' engagement with Muslim communities around the world. The discussion will be moderated by Cheryl Benton, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State, Bureau of Public Affairs. The event will be streamed live on DipNote, the Department of State's official blog, at 11:15 a.m. (EDT). You will have the opportunity to participate through the submission of questions, some of which will be selected for response during the live broadcast. Submit your questions now here on DipNote.

This is the third in the new "Conversations with America" video series recently launched by the Bureau of Public Affairs in which the State Department's senior leadership holds monthly conversations live online with leaders of prominent non-governmental organizations. Discussion topics include foreign policy and global issues. The forums provide views of how leaders from the foreign affairs community engage the Department on pressing foreign policy issues and how both the U.S. government and civil society are working across the globe on issues that concern Americans most.

Comments

Comments

Oystercracker
|
United States
October 15, 2010

O.C. in the U.S.A. writes:

@ Eric,

The government invades other countries for their own self interest. Let's call a spade a spade and quit with all the grandiose, high flutin' posturing. We're in Afghanistan to build a pipeline and get oil shale reserves not to mention its other rich mineral wealth. Can the Afghani's work with us or not? We can offer them this, this and that, in return for that this and this. Simples!

mostafa m.
|
Egypt
October 21, 2010

Mostafa R.M. in Egypt writes:

It's like this...Once when I was in New York visiting the city, I was waiting for the light to change on a very crowded sidewalk and got bumped by accident off into the street in front of an oncoming bus. Someone else grabbed me and yanked me back just before the bus would have hit and killed me.

aqeel
|
Pakistan
October 21, 2010

Aqeel in Pakistan writes:

@Eric,
Speech is an index of mind and tactful wordings is mere siplomacy .As you wrote that "you are now much more stronger than that of ww2 to cause damage in wunk of eye".By the way are you equally capable of bringing "PEACE & HARMONY" within less than than wink of eye through calculated wise peaceful ways/manner??

2.By Eric:Thing is, we haven't yet used all resources at our disposal to bring a halt to it, and the longer governments support those who oppose us, the greater the chance that we will remove those governments from power accordingly, using all the tools at our disposal.

2(a)The inevitable concequence of your government's failure to take action on this matter is a choice given them by my government that they may either stand united with us in the fight or get the hell out of the way and let us finish the job.

The last think they will want to wish upon themselves is to stand in our way and suffer the concequences of our wrath

CONTRADICTIONS WITHIN YOUR COMMENTS/
the word "dominate" in the definition of "hyperpower" you cited isn't exactly the opperative state of being of hyper-power status.

Folks have a choice to follow our lead in just about every circumstance or not, and they generally realize eventually that we arn't doing this from a standpoint of national ego or to dominate nations.
Is nt It Dominaton over nations to force them to follow you and even obey/agree with you else their nation and countries will be turned into ruins??(As Told by U.S govt to Pervez Musharraf after 9/11 )Accepted by your goverment on medea and written in "IN THE LINE OF FIRE" Book By Pervez Musharraf .So right term is that folks have a choice either to follow yout lead or get destroyed-right?
After exchanging comments with you,reding between lines and your thought process that reflects the capability to cause famage to rarth and its innocent piblic instead of thinking peaceful ways to bringback peace and love , as it used to be decades back..i feel that U.S initiated the 4th world-war under tag of globalization..but why if things can be improved by other social scientific means?I will appereciate having your frank/fair comments on this besides,as you said that Americans are most introward nation.Sometimes ,its important to unfold urself to resove issues...provided theres willingness and intents to bring real reforms in the name of mankind and Humane.Physical revolutions are the things of stone age and obscelete..but yes,the the core is the revolution of mindsets. regs

AQEEL
|
Pakistan
October 21, 2010

Aqeel in Pakistan writes:

@O.C
Oil shale reserves was an addition to my knowledge,thanks.True,Goverments invade other countries for their own self interests,even charity organizations seek their self interest first ,sometimes under the name of humane,sometimes the title of invassion is peace,eliminating global poverty,and a lot many attactive beautiful cover titles to play with human/public emotions..A frienf from whitehouse group wrote me that he/she does nt laugh on politicians for its cruel to laugh on animals..
If revolution is required,then it should be on 100% global scale..revolution of mindsets.else its hard that anything ll improve but yes can be suppressed with power and curse of slavery will get back onto common innocent people of our planet.
We are not advancing towards progress but going "Back to Egg"
Positive vision is important for healthy advancement when we decide not to rule over each other.Hunger for power is self killer desease-regs

Oystercracker
|
United States
October 22, 2010

O.C. in the U.S.A. writes:

@Aqueel,
You're so funny! I agree. I wish politicians would learn to chant or do Muslim prayers because it would change their alpha brain wave patterns. They wouldn't be so self serving and self absorbed. They'd check their egotism at the door. Everyone wants to control the world when they should be controlling themselves. The world is sick of all the manipulation. We don't need Capitalism, Socialism, Zionism, Wahhabism. We need to follow Eric from New Mexico ism. It goes something like this, Hey! Everybody just chill, man! Sage sentiments from a former army, drill instructor.

Eric
|
New Mexico, USA
October 22, 2010

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@Mustafa in Egypt, @Aqueel in Pakistan,...due to the kindness of strangers, rumors of my intelectual inconsistancy have been greatly exaggerated...(chuckle).

Ask the taliban what happened when terrorists were allowed save haven in Afghanistan...? The very fact we are having this discussion is proof positive the US gov. has an enormous capacity to act with restraint, given that more than a few here in my gov. are convinced the Pak gov. is playing both sides of the fence.

My point in relating the comparison of US intent to that brief experience in NYC was that...not all things governmenmts do in the world are driven by political manuverings or any other such bearuocratic Machavellianism, ... ripe for the public pickings of conspiracy theorists.

(OC should take the hint)

We are after all a government "by for and of the people", and the humans in government being what they are sometimes act with heart, instead of with greed.

As for the question of "domination" in respect to hyper-power status;...look here, if we wanted to "dominate"...in the classic sense of the word, I think we would have simply nuked the entire region and taken Pakistan's nukes away at this point for safekeeping... just to have put an end to terrorists and any chance that any government or entity will ever get so stupid with the good 'ol USA ever again as to harbor them, aid or abbet them ...while we are in a state of war with al-quaida and associates.

We could do diplomacy by dictat if we had to, and we've had to in a couple notable cases already. But still even in our wrath we excercise extreme restraint in going about it, or... in a word ...try to be "civilized" about a most uncivilized activity of man, which is modern warfare.

Feeding a whole lot of refugees and promoting their safe return home is part of that...

Arn't we glad we haven't nuked bin laden yet...? Or North Warizstan for that matter...?

So let's be realistic, if the USA wanted to "dominate":, we could throw our weight around a lot more than we are inclined to... generally speaking. I'm sure the Pak gov appreciates that we don't as a rule.

But then again Pakistan has "by circumstance" stumbled into the street and who would we be not to yank them back from the oncoming ill intent of terrorists before this becomes terminal to the Pak gov.'s existance?

Because then for sure we'd have to put combat boots on the ground in Pakistan in a big way. We arn't about to lose this war because some hadn't the stones to fight it.

Aqueel, Should we now have the right to insist that Pakistan not turn a blind eye to those who may be in fact traitors to your people? That 5th column within your society that wants democracy to fail? Or those who make money from instability and uncertainty?

I suppose that is for the Pak gov. to prosectute the individuals responsible.

If we are going to invest billions in aid and armarments, the American taxpayer does indeed have the right to expect results from the Pakistani people, not just their government as aid recipiants.

If you are going to be in the same foxholes with us in the fight against terrorism, remember that making love and war have one thing in common. Don't do either half-way or you'll be hearing about it from your partner in the morning, and it won't be pleasant in the assesment given of non-performance and lack of satisfaction involved.

And then of course other options will have be explored.

So you might ask yourself why someone randomly pulled me out of the path of a bus and the answer suddenly may come that he simply didn't want to be witness to a bloody mess, and had the means and the presence of mind to lend me that slight assist as I jumped backwards (without which I probably would have had not done so quick enough, previously having lost my balance momentarily).

In a broad way, so has Pakistan...

It's ok if America doesn't want to be witness to folks making a bloody mess of things in the world isn't it?

And like that fellow, who grinned at me and just walked on down the road...we arn't asking a whole lot in return except a little self-preserving sanity to take root in the minds of men and governments.

That's exceptionally reasonable , considering.

EJ

Oystercracker
|
United States
October 22, 2010

O.C. in the U.S.A. writes:

and a pipeline too, Eric. Don't forget the Afghani pipeline. That ain't no conspiracy theory......Hoooya!

Oystercracker
|
United States
October 22, 2010

O.C. in the U.S.A. writes:

Correction: Saudi-Yemeni-Afghani pipeline. My Bad!

Eric
|
New Mexico, USA
October 22, 2010

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@OC,

You don't know me, and have no right to make false representation of my personal history, nor did I ever serve in the US military.

( Though there's a part of me that probably would have made a real good USMC drill instructor.)

See what you don't quite get is that attitude is aquired without indoctrination.

See how you are?

There's a time to be 'chill' and a time to become a terrorist's worst nightmare.

One can do both at once and keep peace centered in mind.

Try not to fragment the duality more than needed.

Eric
|
New Mexico, USA
October 22, 2010

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@OC-

Pipelines...? Jeeze whiz,,I guess I can debunk the myth in a sentence or two...

If that's "why we are there" as you implied, then either the America Gov. is incredibly stupid and incompetent, or we left Afghanistan adrift for a decade in part because we had no interest one way or another in building one.

My guess it was the latter.

Ever wonder why we gave Kuwait back to the Kuwaiti's after the 91 gulf war removed Saddam's forces of occupation?

Hey dear...got news,...if it was "blood for oil" after all OC,....we must have been insane to give all that oil back to them right? Or maybe you're just dreaming...

I think it's the latter.

(This is where the average neo-liberal-left-wingnut ideologues fall flat when run over by logic.)

OK, so if there's "tire-tracks all across your back, I can see you've had your fun"...(-words in "crosstown traffic" by Jimi Hendrix.)

Later's...

John P.
|
Greece
October 22, 2010

John P. in Greece writes:

QUOTE: if we wanted to "dominate"...in the classic sense of the word, I think we would have simply nuked the entire region…END OF QUOTE.

Simple, True, Intelligent phrase, most people cannot understand.
In other words, some times, especially if you are wise enough to act the logical way, you do not care if medium people think that “you can’t”, because you know inside yourself, inside your brain, that YOU just chose “not to want it this way- the bad way”. Otherwise, you would have surely DO IT! Because, in both cases: You can!
(I wish my English make sense – LOL)

@ people creating (all the time) conspiracy theories
Give your brain a break.
Oh! Boy…
You spend all of your power in creating, developing and spreading conspiracy scenarios that even a child can understand that it would be impossible for a “BAD decision centre” to administrate, all at once.

(here is a hint: the whole success is based on someone’s ability to improvise. But, this automatically proves that you cannot have conspiracy scenarios. Our world may be too small compared to the Universe, but certainly too big for running 100 thousand different “Bad plans”, powered by different “Bad groups”)

I mean, some people are still saying silly things about 9/11. Now you talk about the pipes. Tomorrow you will say that USA is responsible for the death of the last Belgian frog in Europe’s lakes.
If you don’t understand that you should give your conspiracy nightmares a break, please, Give US a break!

@ Mr. Drillman (CHUCKLE)
Thank God this New Yorker saved your life, no matter why, because he offered us the amenity to read your wonderful thoughts.

Eric
|
New Mexico, USA
October 23, 2010

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@John in Greece,

Dead frogs need scapegoats too(chuckle).

Sometimes it becomes neccessary to engage a false notion with an even more outrageous one so as to lend perspective on the absurdity of holding false concepts as "the way things are".

On one of Pres. Bush's last official visits to Mr. Karzai, he was quoted as saying to the Afghan President, "we could have done things differently." and no elaboration was ever offered on the comment.

Well in theory we absolutley have the capacity and the hardware to, at a moment's notice.

Which reminds me that after 31 years of chanting "death to America", the Iranian leadership is long overdue for a smack-down.

And 'lil Kim only needs to get uppity and threaten the US with nuclear war one more time.

I must note here that all bets are off if and when a terrorist detonates a nuke in an American city.

It is my understanding that folks have been duly informed as to the inevitable concequences of such an event if they played any part in it.

---

@ A note to FM Queshi, for his consideration;

Re;

"But let us not forget that we are once again engaged as partners in a momentous challenge, a momentous struggle. I would call it the defining struggle of our times. I am, of course, referring to our joint fight against terrorism. We are fighting an enemy that offers no quarter, obeys no law, and holds nothing sacred. We have both lost valuable lives. In case of Pakistan, nearly 30,000 civilians have lost their lives, and the ordinary Pakistani citizens brave a daily fare of suicide bombings as they go about their lives. Nearly 7,000 of our valiant law enforcement officials have perished in this fight, more than the combined loss of lives of NATO forces in Afghanistan.

Nonetheless, it unfortunately seems easy to dismiss Pakistan’s contributions and sacrifices. There are still tongue-in-cheek comments even in this capital about Pakistan’s heart not really being in this fight. We do not know what greater evidence to offer than the blood of our people. Madam Secretary, we are determined to win this fight.

The Pakistan our adversary wants will not be a Pakistan that the vast majority of citizens want to live in. We have no doubts about who are enemy is and what we must do to defeat it. I wish to show you that Pakistan will not allow any space to terrorists on its territory. Violence against innocent people is unacceptable. It cannot be justified on any ground. As such, there can be no distinction between good and bad terrorists. Pakistan and the United States share the goal of defeating terrorism."

-F M Qureshi

It is only fitting that I offer the honorable Pakistani FM clarificatioon on the following remarks I made here on Dipnote at about the same time he was delivering these (above) remarks on the 22nd;

"But then again Pakistan has "by circumstance" stumbled into the street and who would we be not to yank them back from the oncoming ill intent of terrorists before this becomes terminal to the Pak gov.'s existance?

Because then for sure we'd have to put combat boots on the ground in Pakistan in a big way. We arn't about to lose this war because some hadn't the stones to fight it."

@ To FM Qureshi- The only way your government will fall to terrorism is if "some hadn't the stones to fight it".

In case the logic of my original statement wasn't articlated clearly, I offer this as well; I have no doubt that the political will exists to preserve your nation, as well as the individual courage on the part of the people to do so.

The rest of what I've said here about terrorismn will have to stand as food for thought and until a full accounting has been made public, doubts will persist as to some inside the ISI and their ties to terrorists despite the apparent level of trust reached at this point between our governments.

You can start with AQ Khan and give the US full and total access to him. That would be a good thing to do to relieve folks the burden of not knowing all we "need to know" about his nuclear proliferation activities to safeguard the American public.

Reason you should not oppose this is what will happen inevitably if you've held back information that would prevent a nuclear terrorist incident from occuring in my country at any point in the future.

I don't need to describe the ramifications among the American public towards your country if the event were to be traced back in any way to your soil. You can simply forget any notion of enjoying soverign rights in the aftermath.

As I stated to Aqueel;

"The power of the people can be found in their diversity, and their dedication to being their own masters of their future.

(true in my country as well as your's)

These floods grant you the opportunity to build anew, the nation you want Pakistan to become.

It wasn't just because the need was great that I made donation, it was because I have faith that Pakistanis are up to the task."

Best,

EJ

Aqeel
|
Pakistan
October 23, 2010

Aqeel in Pakistan writes:

@Eric & OC
I am happy that is forum/blog is gradually attaining some momentum else the purpose of this blog will go astray.Eric,as you say that pakistan goverment is playing both sides of fence..Your thoughts must be based on evidences instead of perceptions.However no possibilities can be ruled out ,if Pakistani goverment is plaaying also on the other side of fence,what could be the reasons,they must be identified and eradicated.I understand the concern of American taxpayer does indeed have the right to expect results from the Pakistani people, not just their government as aid recipiants.Yes they do have a right to expect positive desired outcom but if aids/grants are given to wrong greedy hands who prefers to fill up their bank accounts and dont even care for their own country and nation?
Yes , you r Feeding a whole lot of refugees and promoting their safe return to their homes but it would be better if you could help their return to their homeland and feed them there.These people apparently Afghani's only are not just isolated to their refugee's camps but millions scattered in urbal /rural areas of Pakistan & are involved in street crimes,decoities,drug and arm trafficking bombing and a lot more.Locations of their colonies are very strategic.They are trained people who have fought the war against former superpower..Each of them must be sent back to their country atleast now.This will definitely help in reduction of terrorism and victimizing innocent public of pakistan within pakistan.If goverment is failed or unwilling or not even bothered,then yes Pakistani public in various medium sized group under various nationalist titles/names should be trained to combat with this mafia and get our country vacated from them which is not easy job without sincere global/u.s support.A common man is suffering through street crimes,high level crimes,unjust,bombing etc which is straight away one form of terrorism.I remember one speech of Pervez musharraf when he came in power that there are 2 factions even in Army.so ur thought that pakistan goverment in involved on both sides of fence have the possibility.But that is Govt To Govtlevel issue,common public which is below the line of poverty,clean water,education is the worst sudderer of this terrorism.So far Pakistan had one and single leader ,pervez musharraf who delivered a lot to nation and played great role against terrorism out of his above average intelligence and vision.Now again pervez Musharraf is gaining popularity and his success of his campaign on face bookreflects around 70-80 percent public want him back as a democratic president.People of Pakistan love him but antistate mafia's created so many issues/constitutional problems that he had to resign.Pervez Musharraf understands that he cant give a call to public to make rallys in his favour at this stage because of worst law and order conditions.He doesnt want innocent public of pakistan to die while chanting slogans in his favour at this stage.U.S should use its influence to to give pakistan back under his rule.Vote test can be made on internet.It seems highly important for global,regional and national peace that Pervez musharraf must come back in power..Else its better that u use nuke on n.waziristan as well as on whole pakistan,then start reconstruction.Its better to die once than in bits and pieces..i a m honest.Pakistani nation is fed up of being victamised and sufferings due to greedy corrupted politicians and multiple mafias,I,as a part of nation of pakistan,request for the help and support through wise hands or invade directly..we invite u to rule.Pakistan should be devided into as many states as many languages are being spoken here and pushtoon should be sent to peshawer zoze,baloch shoul be sent to their state/province/panjabis should be sent to punjab,and other linguistic people should be sent to their newly formed statesUrdu speaking mohajirs should live in karahi/hyderabad/sukker zoze and Sindhi speaking ppl should live in other districts of Sind and there should be sort of visa/permit system if one wants to travel from one state to another.mergers of land may be made contributing some part of NWFP and Afganistan,Sind and India etc...

Eric,further,you have the right to insist and even force that Pakistan not turn a blind eye to those who may be in fact traitors to our people & those who make money from instability and uncertainty.Yes they should be prosecuted and punished..i fully do agree with you on this point.

@O.C..lol @ I wish politicians would learn to chant or do Muslim prayers because it would change their alpha brain wave patterns--yes we need to follow Eric ism:)

Oystercracker
|
United States
October 23, 2010

O.C. in the U.S.A. writes:

@Eric,
What has more than 100 years of war given us? And at what expense to the world? And what does it say about America who holds up the banner of peace, democracy and human rights to the world but allows torture? And then sends our native sons to die in war over a lie. First it was Osama Bin Laden, then it was weapons of mass destruction, then it was to liberate the Iraqi people. Remind me Eric, which one was it?

@John from Greece,
The depleted uranium from all the bombs will kill Afghanis and Iraqi's for generations. They didn't need to drop a bomb.

Oystercracker
|
United States
October 24, 2010

O.C. in the U.S.A. writes:

@Aqueel,
How funny! We have a lot of Mafia's here too. We can't even help our own country let alone Pakistan. Though, In Afghanistan they're starting to get some Taliban to dig canals and ditches. This is a really positive sign. If they could hurry and get Pakistan busy working, building and creating maybe the tide would soon turn. Pakistan could train massive numbers of doctors for Haiti and Haiti could build pre-fab houses for Pakistan. I prefer work over war. It brings everyone together rather than tear them apart. If only we had been building, creating, improving over the last 50 years, imagine where the world would be now.

Eric
|
New Mexico, USA
October 24, 2010

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@OC,

Look around and find your own answers, I'm not here to entertain your angst, and I certainly can't give you the answer to humanity's proclivity for self extermination over the last 200,000 years in five thousand charaters or less. There's a lot you don't wish to understand and the more you fragment the duality of existance the more you will just confuse yourself and I mean this as the litteral truth dear, not as insult. I can't help you if you can't help yourself.

Aqeel,

There's a secret to overcoming the seemingly impossible in terms of mending the social fabric in a society torn by war and devestastion...and the secret to gaining the confidence to muddle through is found in remembering one's joy...'cause if you arn't doing it for the kids, why bother eh?

The best we adults can do is leave them a world they won't be cursing us for leaving them to raise their own children up in.

See if you can remember your joy, you can build the peace from scratch, with enough motivation to keep it preserved and protected.

Hey if Europe did it after WW2, what's impossible anyway?

The terrorist of the small mind cannot grasp why it is mankind has built civilization on top of the ruins of civilization since we concocted social order on a civic scale ....which gets back to what I was saying to OC about just how long term certain aspects of the struggle we are in today has been going on.

(if one noted the "good sayings" and the reference to terrorism in that 2500 year old text I posted here)

One thing I do know is that America may be able to provide blueprints, but Pakistan must adapt them to fit the "Pakistani dream" not some adopted notion of the "American dream", because your future must be a reflection of the character of Pakistan.

Just remember what doesn't kill you will generally make you stronger for the hassle it was to deal with.

Ultimately though, even with our support you must do this for yourselves...we can't do that for you.

Same for the Afghan people, they must own their future, we can't hand it to them pre-cast in concrete...they must build the form and pour the new foundations they rebuild their house on.

What we are good at is changing people's circumstances to allow them to do that.

And we use a pretty well stocked toolkit to achive that in most cases.

That's why we would take on a challenge like bringing Afghanistan full circle by removing the taliban from power to get to bin laden...then creating the conditions for some 4 million Afghans to return home, and that incleded their former King..Zahir Shah...who not only didn't return riding on a tank, but on his return asked his people to embrace democracy as it was time and he thought Afghanistan could live without royalty in charge.

Sometimes you just can't return to the past.

But being whole, free and at peace is not dependant on what was, but what is, and what you make of it in the now.

We've seen what the people can do when motivated....if you gotta do it block by block, neighborhood by neighborhood, city by city, province by province then that's what you have to do collectively to put and end to the crime and corruption.

By the numbers...see you have the warm bodies...they just arn't as well organized as the terrorists are, and they are only in the thousands, not in the millions like you have among aveage law abiding citizens comparitively...so there's no need to feel intimidated, they are the one's running scared of your progress.

Why does it scare them? because your freedom makes them irrelevant. What's a drummer with a broken drumstick? Impotent.

When no one is marching to the tune of their intimidation, it becomes the same thing as castrating their will upon Pakistani society.

Simple. So remember your joy and get on with it...and have some fun with it...

Look if this was my country and Al-quaida or Taliban set up shop in my neck of the woods here in the Rocky Mountains, folks would issue year round hunting licences at no charge to the public. "open season" on terrorists..believe me...they'd be hunted down for sport...stuffed, mounted and hung on the wall above the local bar so the patrons can toast their demise.

And you wonder why we Americans have the constitutional right to bear arms in our own defense? Against all enemies foreign and domestic?

For just such circumstance as you might understand intimately.

I trust you'all will work this thing out and with a little help from your friends here, things will be looking a lot better in general by this time next year.

( I don't know about the "Eric ism's", too close to that to be any proper judge of. But if you guys keep this up, I fear the Dept. of State might just have to give me some official duties to perform in that regard(chuckle).

It wouldn't do well to have affected thinking unofficially now would it?

(grin)

John P.
|
Greece
October 24, 2010

John P. in Greece writes:

@ O.C. in the U.S.A.
Same conspiracy thoughts were heard during and after the military operations in ex-Yugoslavia. However, the “future” proved the “truth”.

Not only depleted uranium did not kill (still does not) all these different ethnicities and religion groups for generations, but also they found a “road map for happiness”. Now they live! Now, they have their own countries and all together work in peace for a better future. Of course, as Madame Secretary wisely mentioned in one of her inspired speeches, there are still plenty of things to be done. But, at least, it works and it’s better than in the past.

Eric wrote you (asked you) something, but you never replied:
“Ever wonder why we gave Kuwait back to the Kuwaiti's after the 91 gulf war removed Saddam's forces of occupation?”.
I mean we did not keep the oil. We did not stay there like Hitler did in many countries. We did not “dominate”. Right?
We did not stay in ex-Yugoslavia like Romans did in plenty of places, centuries ago. We did not “dominate”. Right?

I will also borrow another one of his “boosting” thoughts:
“The only way to end a war is to win the war”.

But, I think, that you are not so sure that there is a “war”. If I mention 9/11, instead of dropping cards, you will put your hand in the conspiracy pocket saying that this was also a “bad guys’ plan”.

You are also implying that the use of depleted uranium in conventional guns may be dangerous. Maybe! Not proved though! Surely depleted uranium is not the ideal!But, I can’t imagine how you can win a “war” by just throwing flowers. Hippies also attempted to do so, but they lost their “war”.

Please, this time, don’t tell me about the cow crisis, the chicken crisis, the mosquito crisis and all the other “conspiracy” crisis that according to your logic is a product of bad American and Jew plans.

According to my opinion, anti-American propaganda that used to be based on spreading conspiracy theories against USA has to deal with a new-millennium problem: some of you guys (I do not mean you) used this “conspiracy tool” too much. And now is “depleted”.
All of which means, we don’t buy!

P.S.: I think that Eric will get you an answer concerning Iraq. Nevertheless, I would like to comment on this question too.
Do you think that if Iraq’s military operations was also a conspiracy scenario would be any difficult for Americans just to “plant” some nuclear weapons, after they entered the country. Then, “they would have found” weapons and you, today, wouldn’t be able to ask “if then it was weapons of mass destruction”.
Did they?
No!
You see, it’s pretty simple, if you use common sense.

Oystercracker
|
United States
October 24, 2010

O.C. in the U.S.A. writes:

Bush and Cheney received lucrative oil contracts. What's the point? I'm not denying that people's lives don't improve. Just arguing against the perceived notion that all of this mayhem was done out of American benevolence. Did you know that poppy cultivation actually increased after the Afghanistan invasion? Why is that? America has its markets. It doesn't come from a benevolent notion to feed and educate starving children. Though, we probably could have made a lot more money by establishing schools and businesses because at least that way we would have deeply convinced the world of our kindness while simultaneously extracting vast profits.

Eric
|
New Mexico, USA
October 24, 2010

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@John,

It's all just a vacuous smokescreen to avoid discussing the real issues, and provides constant distraction from the topic thread.

I think you answered it for me anyway just about like I would have...(chuckle).

RE; "P.S.: I think that Eric will get you an answer concerning Iraq."

Oystercracker
|
United States
October 24, 2010

O.C. in the U.S.A. writes:

Exactly my point Eric from New Mexico,
When you figure out the conspiracy they send out the assasination mob squad and chemical spray and particle beam hit men that leave you with spots on your lungs and your brain scrambled, not to mention the black helicopters that hover over your house in the night though I did get a wonderful fly over by the President recently. He came very close to my window. Awesome and thrilling rush of American military strength and power as it shakes the foundations. He still hasn't been over for that cup of Kona yet...Just love the intimidating flyovers even if it scares my cat... Great Fun!

Oystercracker
|
United States
October 24, 2010

O.C. in the U.S.A. writes:

@John P. in Greece,
Why would they blow up Iraq when they were profiting by stealing all of those billions of gallons of oil they never paid Iraq for and ferrying their heroin across the world? What you suggest makes no sense.

Oystercracker
|
United States
October 24, 2010

O.C. in the U.S.A. writes:

@Eric,
If the war wasn't about sending America's sons and daughters to an illicit war to line the pockets of criminal politicians then enlighten me. Really Eric Dear, please enlighten me so that I can repair any confusion.

AQEEL
|
Pakistan
October 25, 2010

Aqeel in Pakistan writes:

Its more if this blog helps changing mindsets of muslim community with U.S engagement and make each other realise that two biggest communities are great friends.
and they are working together within their capacities for mutual goal.
I am thankful to secretary clinton who's making sincere toilsome effort to get the chanllenging job don around the world including muslim communities and Pakistan.Her actions and attitude is so good that any1 would like her.

http://blogs.state.gov/index.php/entries/secretary_us_pakistan_cooperation/

Changing attitudes that leads positive impact is the core.

Aqeel
|
Pakistan
October 25, 2010

Aqeel in Pakistan writes:

world needs mothers love

John P.
|
Greece
October 25, 2010

John P. in Greece writes:

@ O.C. in the U.S.A.

Ok! Time for LOLing. Eric is right again: “It's all just a vacuous smokescreen”. But now, you added some chemicals too. Heroin?

What this has to do with all?
1. We begun with the “U.S. engagement with Muslim communities worldwide”.
2. we talked about 9/11
3. we traveled to Afghanistan and Iraq
I (think) proved you that there was no conspiracy plan there, otherwise it would be just a walk in the park to find nuclear guns and make the “plan” even more credible for “public eyes”.

… and now you fetch “heroin” on the table?

Another conspiracy theory?
Do you mean that the U.S. of America sell drugs? Bush and Cheney & the feds? The new Administration? Everybody, all together? (I LOL about this new (old) one -scenario)
I don’t see any super market stores, neither (not Neither-lands/Holland) in the States, nor anywhere else in the world selling drugs.
Is it cash&carry; or retail only?

[Dear O.C. you should respect a little bit more all those DEA and CIA agents, who lost their lives fighting drugs – for sure, not selling] and please don’t reply me by using any silly example of agents, or operations that were “found by the media” to be around the “dirt”, because when you fight the dirt, you have to be near the cesspool. You call it a scandal, I call it a “chess sacrifice”. Otherwise, the bad-dirty guys win and you loose. If you know what I mean…

Comma ,

I told you, let’s go the humorous way.
I’ve got a new conspiracy scenario. My design. Free to air.
(I see you are running out of yours)

Do you know why the United States of America want to go to the Mars?
Why they spend so much money for research and NASA?
It’s not blood for oil. It’s water for oil. That’s why they search for water in Mars!
They use American money by saying “we try to find water”, in order to get the oil.
It’s because G.W. Bush, Cheney, Clinton, Obama & All.S.A. have found oil there.
It’s all about the space-pipes…

(a hint: that’s why G.W. is a pilot. In order to inspect the pipe-line, coming via the moon station)

I mean, everybody can make scenarios.
Just a “flight” in the playground park! (a walk in the park)
Reality, though, is difficult!

Eric
|
New Mexico, USA
October 25, 2010

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@OC,
Go talk to the troops going through any international airport in the US on the way to or back from..., they'll do more to enlighten you than I ever could or would be inclined to try at this point.

aqeel
|
Pakistan
November 6, 2010

Aqeel in Pakistan writes:

We are talking about everything other than the TOPIC..Gawdd
....its smart

AQWWL
|
Pakistan
November 6, 2010

Aqeel in Pakistan writes:

Is is important to get involved more and more people in this discussion .the blog is useful but we are not taking optimum advantage of this blog/forum because positive participation of evey community including muslim community can make this blog more useful and successfull..
Creating more awareness about this blog is the key.

Eric
|
New Mexico, USA
November 6, 2010

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@Aqueel,

I appreciate having this conversation with you, but I believe the talking is done.

Time now for the Muslims of the world to clean up the mess within their own community.

Or would you rather it be done by "infidels" like us?

It's a choice you have to face.

Best of luck with it.

EJ

Aqeel
|
Pakistan
November 11, 2010

Aqeel in Pakistan writes:

@ Eric,thanks for your appereciation Eric,

Now u see the ground reality we had beed talking about that how come rallys and protests can be made..tomorrow on 12th,Former president Pervez musharraff asked the public to hold protest against pricehike in fron of a press club ,karachi...and this evening an explosion occurred near shereton hotel,police building in karachi ,just a day before a requested protest.

This Blast might be the indicator of fears of start of movement...movement towards total structural change starting with an issue of a common man's sufferings due to pricehike and inflation against which a protest call was given and virtually refleclected huge support..can we make the rallys on a virtual world??when corrups have jailed people in their homes by creating harrasment,blasts,snippers firings etc.? we must first check our own dustbins.

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