What Are Ways To Increase Civil Society Connections Between the U.S. and Russia?

Posted by DipNote Bloggers
June 25, 2010
Students in Moscow, Russia

On June 24, 2010, President Obama and Russian President Medvedev met in Washington, DC, where they addressed shared challenges and explored opportunities for partnership. In conjuncture with the Presidential Summit, Secretary Clinton hosted a working luncheon with Foreign Minister Lavrov and attended the "Civil Society to Civil Society" Summit (C2C). Secretary Clinton said, "We recognize the critical nature of civil society to a vibrant democracy, and we want to create those relationships between our two countries and between civil society in each country that can assist in answering questions and solving problems... I am one who believes that despite different historical experiences, different cultural backgrounds, there is so much that connects the United States and Russia."What are ways to increase civil society connections between the United States and Russia?

Comments

Comments

Michael K.
June 26, 2010

Michael K. writes:

The strong quest for sovereignty and freedom against similar historic woes is a common ground between Russia and the USA whilst the planetary environmental problems increasing cement countries’ unity-in-diversity-to-date through a civic society.

palgye
|
South Korea
June 27, 2010

Palgye in South Korea writes:

from bad31,

Russians go to the large territory 100 years lease and crop cultivation and a huge grain by making storage and food companies by making Russia's food market to Russia's food supply system, an independent and after, that before the proceeds to community Sponsoring organizations, and they will provide the opportunity to visit a foreign country.

A great way to support from outside, but the established indigenous companies to sponsor them know of support to make the exchange I think. Russia is still enormous military power, but, oil-dependent, the underground economy is too big a lot of social disharmony in danger, and the political system, the official thing, and is supposed to coexist in a unique structure, is, in these situations the more people's welfare economics is responsible for At least the company should have been showing any interest I think.

Russia's food policy is still not paying attention to all the people think. Also in other areas, cooperation with foreign countries - is a combination of electronics, heavy industrial products to create high quality, but expect the Ukraine? - The expected significant progress, but I think the political situation before the storm is. Can assure the people of steadfast attention of the private sector in a particular company or organization that is thought. Independent, but more than 51% of capital invested outside the specific sector or group of companies....

Difficult economy, a new market, should not need to? For the non-military power so geodaehaeji. Even before the military power in the Kremlin as a unique and hidden policy of attrition in the tent thought to be difficult. People's capacities and assets rather than the state-enhanced rice or theory of economic policy than the war than the flow of the economy and more peaceful life, do you think will be interested. PS: the development of Ukraine's aircraft are quite surprised that you think. Likewise, I think people need to move the money.

Underground economy, not from the pockets of the people - politicians and the bottom of the economic think conglomerates - seed money that the society should be the basis for economic exchange is helpful to think. In the current situation, the exchange of Bucha won national attention away from the possibility of becoming a big secret societies co-Tues I'm not gonna be moved into the new ruling class most likely, likely to foster anti-American public opinion, I think. Oh ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~, mistake, Anticapitalist.

Russian mafia, officials do not bother ... I want to travel to Russia A little while longer ....

Where the future is not visible. Africa should start now? China's influence in Southeast Asia are still wondering what would happen in scope, but

from bad31

palgye
|
South Korea
June 27, 2010

Palgye in South Korea writes:

Dear to,

After the floods in South America have to think about I think. Excellent market growth rate is faster, but I think internally it is divided. Rich and poor people, though, Brazil, Uruguay and the (Argentine) was so fast I do not know. I do not know whether what you hear. Despite a few failures experienced in the ways of the past once again trying to solve all the problems I think. Regenerative electric shock in the emergency room, but that can be .....

Thank You.

OysterCracker
|
United States
June 28, 2010

O.C. in the U.S.A. writes:

Curtailing Mafia related enterprises and better enforcement at American airports of foreigners who have questionable and criminal backgrounds.Better oversight of organized criminals infiltrating American government and systems such as hospitals, schools, student loans, passport, visa, birth certificates, social security, subsidized housing. There is too much identity theft because government agencies don't adequately check people's backgrounds. People on social security who have never worked a day in their life on Amaerican soil. Foreign mothers having babies and living the high life by scamming the system. The abuses need to end. It's Un-American!

Ron
|
New York, USA
June 28, 2010

Ron in New York writes:

Putin closed NGO's in the late 90's;revoked Civil Society Orgs. registrations and refused to grant NGO certificates to new Orgs. This was a reaction to g growinadvocacy for drug treatment,HIV/AIDS programs and other health and social services. Russian Federation views these Orgs.as a threat to RF's autocracy and lack of transparency on Human Rights issues.
Having said this, it seems unlikely that Civil
Society will advance unless USG global economic interests incentivize Russia's change in stance on NGO's.
are m

Zharkov
|
United States
June 29, 2010

Zharkov in the U.S.A. writes:

Try to be more helpful generally, instead of criticizing everything that Russia does differently from our way of doing things.

For example, every nation has spies working in other nations, including us. Half the US embassy staff are CIA in some countries.

We should give people accused of being spies the same presumption of innocence as any other criminal we catch.

The Justice Department seems to be conducting a trial by news media and innuendo, rather than allow suspects a chance at having an impartial jury. When the nightly news, radio, and internet are saturated with details of the case, how can anyone expect a fair trial?

The most fair-minded citizen has to become biased after reading the details of the case and none of those details are under oath but pure hearsay, courtesy of the prosecution.

It's no surprise why the Russian government isn't celebrating our reset button anymore - it doesn't do anything when they push it.

What we might have done is to quietly bring our case to trial, allow the juries to decide if anyone is guilty of anything, and then deport the convicted suspects as we would any illegal alien.

Maybe if we begin treating them fairly, other people will want to establish "civil society connections", whatever that is. All we are doing at the moment is confusing them.

Flavius
|
Virginia, USA
June 29, 2010

Flavius in Virginia writes:

"Glee." In Russian.

Well, ok. That, and "Hogan's Heroes."

OysterCracker
|
United States
June 29, 2010

O.C. in the U.S.A. writes:

Zharkov,
You make an excellent point. There are as many American criminals as Russian ones and even more American and Jewish spies who deliberately or inadvertently help Russian spies infiltrate American institutions for greedy profit. If both sides could lose the Cold War mentality maybe we could find some common ground and start to really heal what's destroying the world instead of adding to people's misery.

Evgeny
June 30, 2010

Evgeny writes:

Well, first of all civil society representatives need to be able to communicate, and to ensure that Russian NGO's staff need to speak English. Maybe, teaching English in Russia could be one of the civic projects that American NGOs could implement.

The more people speak English in Russia the easier the interaction betwen Russia and other countries will be, because you never learn just language, but what you gain with the language you learn is some culture of the people who speak it. Which, of course, makes the communication in all areas easy and effective.

Zharkov
|
United States
June 30, 2010

Zharkov in the U.S.A. writes:

Governments tend to forget that foreign spies are people too. Their family and friends worry about them every bit as much as we worry about our CIA officers in the field.

New reports suggest that the 11 suspects are not even spies, did no real damage, and are typical illegal aliens who apparently have friends at the Russian Embassy.

If they haven't already done so, Russia needs to decide whether Moscow will acknowledge those accused or leave them to the (very little) mercy of the US justice system.

If the case against them is strong and conviction is certain, then Russia has nothing to lose by admitting their status, registering them as foreign agents, and requesting the State Department to have the case against them dismissed in the national interests of both nations.

The DOJ will do whatever Obama suggests, which gives Russia more leverage than in the past.

No doubt that President Medvedev could request their release to return to Russia as one of the many, many favors the US now owes for Russian cooperation in Afghanistan and Georgia, among other places, but I see no reason why our State Dept. could not make the first move to prove that we really do want to be friends. Now that would be a friendly gesture and the right thing to do.

We wouldn't want our own CIA guys placed on trial and made part of a global news circus, so why not extend the same courtesy to Russia?

One precedent is Clinton travelling to North Korea to request the release of some Chinese-American journalists, something far more embarrasing than making a few telephone calls.

Rachel
|
Wisconsin, USA
June 30, 2010

Rachel in Wisconsin writes:

So, when are we going to publicly reprimand Russia for sending spies here? Shouldn't this type of thing be unacceptable as we plausibly attempt to improve relations? I'd like to see a tougher stance and reaction from the State Dept.

OysterCracker
|
United States
June 30, 2010

O.C. in the U.S.A. writes:

As someone on the BBC so wittily stated, What secrets did the Russians come away with? The secret ingredients to Kentucky Fried Chicken batter? The spy threat is real but its really funny too. America could use some comedic relief lately.

Flavius
|
Virginia, USA
June 30, 2010

Flavius in Virginia writes:

@O.C.

That's right. That's EXACTLY what they were trying to steal.

Have you ever seen "So I Married an Axe Murderer?" The father says that KFC puts a secret ingredient in its chicken that makes one "crave it fortnightly."

There've been a lot of reports about how unhealthy KFC is. But did you know that KFC is the most popular fast food restaurant in the People's Republic of China?

So. Russian spies. Chicken thighs. Crave it fortnightly. Unhealthy, not spritely. Chinese eat, likely.

Don't upset the chicken cart, O.C.! This is our last chance for WORLD DOMINATION!

Zharkov
|
United States
June 30, 2010

Zharkov in the U.S.A. writes:

Spying is normal, everyone does it, and the US government owns the largest spy network on earth. No other country has more variety of intelligence services than America and none are larger or better financed than ours, and we spy on our friends as much as our enemies, as the French have discovered.

Our spies must violate the laws of every country in which they reside - on purpose - to gather information that we are not supposed to have.

CIA officials have had arrest warrants issued for them at various times in Europe for what our agents have done. Try searching the names "Operation Gladio", or "MK Ultra", on Google sometime.

If, for example, we began reprimanding Britain for spying on us, it would be a credible beginning, but that is never going to happen despite two wars with them in our early history and their undue influence in our foreign policy and monetary decisions.

Repremanding a government for sending spies would be incredibly hypocritical and a monumental bit of comedy.

For those waiting for State Department wrath at Israel for their Pollard espionage, or at China for acquiring our missile guidance systems and W88 warhead (H-bomb) design, it will be a long wait.

There are spies who are more or less acceptable in polite society, and others who we discriminate against on the basis of nationality. In theory, we treat our "friends" differently from our "enemies".

The difference here is that US officials are saying they want to be friends with Russia, so they need to convince our audience that they are sincere. One way to do that is to treat them fairly, the same as we would want to be treated if our positions were reversed, and the same as we treat other countries who are our "friends".

So it appears that the US leadership has a decision to make - whether to treat Russia as an enemy state or a friend. The ball is in our court on that one. If you want a friend, you have to do them a favor because that is what friends do.

Flavius
|
Virginia, USA
June 30, 2010

Flavius in Virginia writes:

The more I think on this, the deeper the conspiracy goes! You see, in the same conversation about KFC in "So I Married an Axe Murderer," the father talks about how his youngest child's head resembles Sputnik! I'm paraphrasing here, but he describes it as "mostly round, but pointy in parts."

As Keanu Reeves might say, "Whoa."

Flavius
|
Virginia, USA
June 30, 2010

Flavius in Virginia writes:

@Zharkov:

You used the phrase "the ball is in our court."

Your realize that Eric owns that phrase, don't you?

I hope you've got your wallet out.

John P.
|
Greece
June 30, 2010

John P. in Greece writes:

@ Z

What? Foreign spies are what? Are you crazy?
I did not read more than your first 2 lines, after this “thought” of yours.

Enough!

I’d love to call you many names, but I won’t get posted then. I respect!

You, yourself, you better respect the stars!

And I do not care what you were writing after your first "too" lines. Really!

What’s the difference between foreign and “local” spies "like you"?
What’s a “foreign” spy, or a “local” spy?

A spy is a spy.

Soviet spies are spies and when get cut should end up in prison for life.

Do you remember the classic movie with Al?
Hollywood is Hollywood. Right!
But:

Can you say to these stars in Langley’s entrance that foreign spies are people too.

Go ahead.
Talk to their children and widows and tell them: foreign spies are people too. Their family and friends worry about them every bit as much as we worry about our CIA officers in the field.

They will appreciate it Z.

Eric
|
New Mexico, USA
June 30, 2010

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@John in Greece, I was going to say that Z doesn't have what it takes to be subtle enough for espionage work, but that's just my subjective opinion.

And here I was thinking Flavius was going to jump all over him for singling out spies as the only individuals governments think of as "human capital" instead of people.

Anyway, when you've had your fill of Z, check out the "Open Pause for Thought" to Foreign Minister Lavrov.

It will put a fresh perspective on all of this...(chuckle).

http://blogs.state.gov/index.php/site/entry/us_russia_c2c_summit#Comments

Zharkov
|
United States
June 30, 2010

Zharkov in the U.S.A. writes:

@John in Greece, I have no idea what your post is about but my post isn't about stars at the CIA. Most of those were murdered, and not executed after arrest and trial, weren't they?

Yes, CIA officers have been killed, and in the past working as a spy meant execution, but we are no longer living in the past.

We exchange agents rather than kill them, although a few primitive nations such as North Korea continue to execute them because human life means less than nothing to their government.

In America, John, we haven't executed a spy in a long time because we are not like North Korea. If you want to kill people, John, perhaps you should join the army.

OysterCracker
|
United States
June 30, 2010

O.C. in the U.S.A. writes:

@Flavius,
That's amazing! The Chinese prefer KFC to orange chicken. Go Figure and I liked your witty little ditty too!

Patrick
|
Maryland, USA
June 30, 2010

Patrick in Maryland writes:

I think every couple of months we should have
video or tv broadcasts of talks, on the progress our government are make in different
fields.And tell the public about programs,and other joint projects our countries are working on together.

Also, i would be more worried about business spys then government spys. Theses government spys sound like millions of other illegals in our country.Are they go to arrest them all.:)

Cya..:)

John P.
|
Greece
July 1, 2010

John P. in Greece writes:

@ Eric in New Mexico
I had already checked out your post concerning “Open Pause for Thought” when writing to Z. Great thoughts! I really loved your remarks.

http://blogs.state.gov/index.php/site/entry/us_russia_c2c_summit - Comments

Actually I was about to congratulate you, but then I started writing to Z and I forgot to do so.
Best Regards!

@ Zharkov in the U.S.A.
Obviously we (me and you) have to face the “translation” problems that Eric brought to table, without being personal though.
I never suggested to execute foreign spies. Either exchange them or imprison them. But don’t tell me to feel pity about them. They wouldn’t do the same if they had the upper hand. That’s how this game is played. So, don’t expect me to say:

- Hi guys. It’s OK you got cut. Don’t worry! We will start the game from the beginning. Get some biscuits and a cold lemonade, while waiting for the next first class flight to send you back home.

Concerning the Obama Administration and Mrs. Clinton efforts to increase civil society connections between the U.S. and Russia, I absolutely applaud their moves. I believe that they are doing great huge steps: a FINE job!

I know that we are not living in the past and I am sure that all these diplomatic and political actions will soon make our world better, safer and peaceful. However, until then, I’d also keep in mind Eric’s remarks concerning “translation”.

So, as you see, neither I enjoy killing people, nor my school of thought remains old-fashioned. And let me joke:
I won’t join the army, as long as you promise me that you will soon start taking some “translation” classes.

Flavius
|
Virginia, USA
July 1, 2010

Flavius in Virginia writes:

Wow! 1989 must have been a dream! I KNEW it was too good to be true!

Mmmmm.., this original recipe is soooo tasty!

Zharkov
|
United States
July 1, 2010

Zharkov in the U.S.A. writes:

After you have worked up a sweat over Russia, then consider this, obtained from open source news reports:

President Obama was nurtured in the fertile center of Soviet covert influence: Columbia University. KGB’s file on Columbia dates back to one of the first Soviet illegals. Werner Rakov, a Soviet trade representative, enrolled in Columbia in 1925. Paul Massing, a “social researcher” spied for the KGB, and helped his wife, Heidi, recruit members of the forerunner of the CIA.

Whittaker Chambers studied at Columbia before joining the Communist Party of the USA (CPUSA). Elizabeth Bentley did too. Bill Ayers earned his Education degrees at Columbia Teachers College. Cy Oggins, a hapless American agent for the KGB, shot dead in the basement of the KGB’s headquarters, studied at Columbia in 1920s. And young Barry Obama earned a degree there.

One of the Soviet’s supreme covert influence agents, Dr. George S. Counts, joined the International Institute at Columbia Teachers College in 1927. With no background, he was hired to specialize in Russia. Immediately sent to Moscow, and provided with a highly intelligent Russian assistant, he was recruited by the KGB within a year. His powerful covert influence operations, guided by the Soviets, planted the seeds of anti-American political correctness that destroyed our education system. Even today American education students cite Counts in their radical dissertations.

So which side are you on, John?
Both sides?

Eric
|
New Mexico, USA
July 1, 2010

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@John in Greece,

If by some strange miracle Lavrov himself decides to respond on this blog publicly to that "Open Pause for Thought" then you may indeed congratulate me on knocking some sense into our cooperative adventure by forcing our partner to get real with the American public.

Whether or not this has any effect on government to government "reset" in relations or not, let me assure everyone @ state that the public's opinion of Russia is at an all time low...worse than during the cold-war era.

We could accept the idea of enmity then with grace and predictability, but they lost the cold-war (or more correctly, humanity came out the winner from it regardless of lost ideology that went by the wayside.)

So it is important for our government to relay the message that we won't put up with this kind of behavior from those who claim to want a better relationship with us...period.

In the strongest possible terms, so they realize what works and what doesn't with the American public, and do so knowing that when the public speaks, Congress is obligated to listen.

How will this affect relations? START ratification will be more of a hassle, the Russians can kiss any chance of a repeal of Jackson/Vannick goodby for years to come, and it may very well give the President pause for thought about just how far to go with his personal support of WTO assention for the Russian Federation.

As to the timing, it's only proper that a goverenment by, for, and of the people properly inform the public of such activity as we are the final arbiters of all treaties and negotiations on a bipartisan level.

It goes without saying that one must seek public aproval before one recieves congressional aproval for any legistlation.

As long as I've been witness to this dysfunctional relationship, there has been a noted pattern of Russia never failing to shoot itself in in it's best foot forward, as it's trying to wedge it in our door to gain acceptance as a partner and constuctive player on the world stage.

Taking all this into account when writing that "Pause for Thought", Foreign Minister Lavrov may very well end up thanking me for offering the Russian Federation the only path to success available to it.

My feeling is Putin should quit whining about the timing and get on with the attitude adjustment, if he truly wishes no harm to come of this in our relations.

I try to be fair about this as you know,.. give common sense a chance to sink in and all,...perfectly willing to give folks the rope they need to hang themselves by,...and drop the occasional verbal nuke on pointy little heads as needed.

This is in my opinion, perfectly in-line with my government's foreign policy approach globally. There's no daylight between the practical philosophical approach here, just that I'm not so versed in politically correct diplomatic acronyms as some might wish...(chuckle).

That's why I can offer a valid definition of the word "transparent" in practical application that eliminates anything disfunctional about its implementation across the board.

The attitude must be reflective of those parameters in order to gain our public's trust...no way around that.

Nor can the Russian Federation remain blind to this at this point, and that's as it should be.

You can't get civil society connections to take well without that trust.

How Russia deals with this will determine just what kind of relationship they wish to have with us.

I hope they take my friendly advice to heart.

Zharkov
|
United States
July 1, 2010

Zharkov in the U.S.A. writes:

@Eric in New Mexico, are you even aware of which side you support?

The KGB targeted the three main cultural transmitters: education/academia, the media, and Hollywood. The anti-American messages (America is a racist, foreigner-hating, sexist imperialistic, hating culture), implanted like advertising, went viral.

A KGB officer did not need to be at every meeting of radicals. The KGB chose its influence agents carefully. It provided the American "Willing Accomplices" with the messages, and then got out of the way. The message exploded across American society.

The KGB influence agent at Columbia, Dr. Counts, created the anti-American point of view in education and academia. In his 1932 speeches "Dare the School Build a New Social Order," declared to American teachers that they needed to "change society." Counts told American teachers that they had a duty to bring about a new age of collectivism. Counts told teachers that the "age of individualism (i.e. individual freedom) is dead."

Do you recognize anything familiar here?

The questions today are: Do our government leaders (our "protectors") believe in traditional America, or in destroying traditional America?

Is this the change some of us believed in?

Does change mean the final destruction of the America we once knew and loved?

OysterCracker
|
United States
July 1, 2010

O.C. in the U.S.A. writes:

It's all very confusing. Are we Communists now? What was the whole Macarthy thing about? Just political theater? You guys are so confusing. I guess you planned it that way.

Eric
|
New Mexico, USA
July 1, 2010

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@John in Greece,

If by some strange miracle Lavrov himself decides to respond on this blog publicly to that "Open Pause for Thought" then you may indeed congratulate me on knocking some sense into our cooperative adventure by forcing our partner to get real with the American public.

Whether or not this has any effect on government to government "reset" in relations or not, let me assure everyone @ state that the public's opinion of Russia is at an all time low...worse than during the cold-war era.

We could accept the idea of enmity then with grace and predictability, but they lost the cold-war (or more correctly, humanity came out the winner from it regardless of lost ideology that went by the wayside.)

So it is important for our government to relay the message that we won't put up with this kind of behavior from those who claim to want a better relationship with us...period.

In the strongest possible terms, so they realize what works and what doesn't with the American public, and do so knowing that when the public speaks, Congress is obligated to listen.

How will this affect relations? START ratification will be more of a hassle, the Russians can kiss any chance of a repeal of Jackson/Vannick goodby for years to come, and it may very well give the President pause for thought about just how far to go with his personal support of WTO assention for the Russian Federation.

As to the timing, it's only proper that a goverenment by, for, and of the people properly inform the public of such activity as we are the final arbiters of all treaties and negotiations on a bipartisan level.

It goes without saying that one must seek public aproval before one recieves congressional aproval for any legistlation.

As long as I've been witness to this dysfunctional relationship, there has been a noted pattern of Russia never failing to shoot itself in in it's best foot forward, as it's trying to wedge it in our door to gain acceptance as a partner and constuctive player on the world stage.

Taking all this into account when writing that "Pause for Thought", Foreign Minister Lavrov may very well end up thanking me for offering the Russian Federation the only path to success available to it.

My feeling is Putin should quit whining about the timing and get on with the attitude adjustment, if he truly wishes no harm to come of this in our relations.

I try to be fair about this as you know,.. give common sense a chance to sink in and all,...perfectly willing to give folks the rope they need to hang themselves by,...and drop the occasional verbal nuke on pointy little heads as needed.

This is in my opinion, perfectly in-line with my government's foreign policy approach globally. There's no daylight between the practical philosophical approach here, just that I'm not so versed in politically correct diplomatic acronyms as some might wish...(chuckle).

That's why I can offer a valid definition of the word "transparent" in practical application that eliminates anything disfunctional about its implementation across the board.

The attitude must be reflective of those parameters in order to gain our public's trust...no way around that.

Nor can the Russian Federation remain blind to this at this point, and that's as it should be.

You can't get civil society connections to take well without that trust.

How Russia deals with this will determine just what kind of relationship they wish to have with us.

I hope they take my friendly advice to heart.

My guess is that the Dipnote editors don't mind if Lavrov reads it...(chuckle).

I figure the Sec. of State would take my humor in stride and appreciate a member of the public hammering on the reset button till it becomes working, practical, reality.

We'll see what comes of the pennies in the wishing well.

Zharkov
|
United States
July 1, 2010

Zharkov in the U.S.A. writes:

Confusing - of course it is, unless you go beyond today's news headlines.

There are a few ways to remove any confusion:

1. Read the US Constitution, the whole thing, every Amendment, study it, research the Federalist Papers with the goal of understanding what America was all about when it was created.

2. Read what Soviet defectors are saying today about the path America is taking.

Without that input, confusion is normal.

Eric
|
New Mexico, USA
July 1, 2010

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@OC,

Z has that affect if you can't see through the BS.

Try this at home...google "Zharkov" and include text of his remarks on policy.

You may as I did long ago come across a Pravda profile by that name, posting exact copies of text as it appears in Dipnote Archives (active posts then).

Same person by reason of probability elimination through a scientific method.

The Location noted by this individual was Quote:

"The Soviet Utopia of America."

UNQUOTE.

Go figure...

Nice to know who you're having a conversation with isn't it? And where they come from.

(chuckle).

There's three things I know to be true about life as a house painter.

There's Death, Taxes, and the fact that paint peals...

And it's not really all that hard to pull the latex mask off Z's colorful reality he wishes to convince others of.

I'm not going to waste a verbal nuke on him, he's already glowing in the dark from our last encounter...

(chuckle)

It would be a total waste of my time and Dipnote blogspace.

By the way, I liked your "home depo" approach to Afghan farming.

Now if they only had an Afghan version of "tool time" on their public TV in addition to tool access, folks could become masters of disaster and home improvement.

Could be a plan, keep up the creative thought process.

EJ

Pages

.

Latest Stories

Pages